Comparing the reaver to the cathedral in its current format.

Reaver Titan WE 20cm 4+ 3+ 3+
2 x Turbo-laser Destructors 60cm 4 x AP5+/AT3+ Fwd
Rocket Launcher 60cm 3BP FxF
DC 6, 4 Void Shields
Fearless, Reinforced Armour, Walker
Critical Hit Effect: Roll D6 in the end phase for each critical, 1 Titan Destroyed 2-3 One additional point of damage 4+ Repaired with no damage.

Cathedral of Purification WE 15cm 4+ 5+ 4+
Promethium Cannon 45cm 4BP, Ignore Cover, FxF
Excommunicator 30cm 3xAP6+/AT4+/AA5+
Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+, FxF
Inferno Cannon 30cm AP3+, Ignore Cover, L Arc
Inferno Cannon 30cm AP3+, Ignore Cover, R Arc
and (15cm) Ignore Cover
Damage Capacity 6, 2 Void Shields
Reinforced Armour, Fearless, Inspiring, Transport (12)
Critical Hit Effect: The Cathedral’s tracks are damaged, immobilising it. Further critical hits inflict an additional point of damage.

First the reaver has better base stats 3+ CC and FF compared to the cathedral 5+ CC and 4+ FF both with a 4+ reinforced armour (although the cathedral has ignore cover FF).
The reaver has 20cm movement with walker ability and 4 void shields compared to the cathedral 15cm movement and 2 void shields.
The reaver has a more severe critical effect compared to the cathedral.
The reaver doesn't have inspiring or transport capacity were the cathedral does, both are fearless.
The reaver has longer ranged weapons with fire power effective against armour and infantry compared to the cathedral shorter ranged weapons mostly effective against infantry (although the cathedral has AA cover).
I reckon the cathedral looks better in a straight one for one points cost, however does that mean it is cheap in the SoB list.

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I understand the predicament. As a Blitz guard, the Cathedral could do quite well, though possibly not as an offensive transport. Just what strategies do you envisage it fulfilling?

Giving it extra speed would make it much more usefull and put it on par with the other battle titans, though I suggest an appropriate price hike, perhaps 650 points to start with (dropping to 600 if deemed necessary).

A price increase may be justified.

When deciding by how much note that due to Walker on the Reaver it's almost always -1 to be hit as well as more Void Shields (which also makes Marshal actions better as it can recover up to 4 shields from the action and be essentially immune to incidental AT fire due to the large number of shields and ability to repair more while a spare AT shot strips half the Cathedral shields).

Further the Cathedral is almost universally doubling and doing so does not guarantee bringing into range all of its guns due o range variances 30-45cm. If it doubles it currently threatens 60-75cm at -1 to hit (mostly offset by ignore cover as most infantry targets have cover) while the Reaver advances an threatens 80cm with all its guns and it has flexibility in targeting tanks or infantry on a turn by turn basis.

Even further many of the lists hat have Reaver access (Steel Legion, Codex Marines) operate in ways that synergise better with it.

Right now the Cathedral (and the Chapels) are poor transports as they are slow, can be immobilised and replace the rhinos making the formations smaller in the process. The rest of the army is very fast and very aggressive so will leave whatever is in the war engines behind. The slow speed means it doesn't really bring its firepower into full effect (or potentially any effect) until about turn 2 unless the opponent has given it something to shoot at.

A big, decently tough warengine with short ranged guns as blitzguard in the 5-650pts range is...not something I see much value in. If it's blitzguarding it probably won't shoot anything until the tail ends of turn 2 or into turn 3. For those points I'd expect something more. I'd rather focus on it being something that drives up to the middle of the board, contest objectives there and toughs it out right in the middle, spitting fire and prayer.

It's not like a titan with long range guns that can blitz guard and punish the middle of the board from at the back at the same time, it has to commit to doing one or the other.

Basically, if it needs a price increase to give it the tools it needs to be fun and effective then increase the points. But don't just directly compare it to the Reaver because as it stands it's a different beast in a different list that currently anti-synergises with what it does.

Don't forget that if it is Blitz guarding, it is effectively denying the opponent two of the five Victory objectives, allowing the rest of the force to concentrate on other activities. And as for the short ranged weaponry, it provides quite an effective area denial weapon as well.

Equally as you know, a standard tactic is to place your T&H objectives in reach somewhere on the half-way line, usually opposite one of the opponent's T&H objectives. This puts the T&H objectives easily in reach of a WE with a 20cm move, and is normal tactics for Ork Gargants which also only move 15cm.

Like I said, the real question is what strategies is this intended to fulfil?

Sure, but you can blitzguard for fewer than 500pts.

Taking the Cathedral and leaving it at the back means taking two formations out of your core rhino rush style firefight assault army (2xRetributors for example) weakening your attack.

I think from an army play style synergy respect the 'objectives on the half way line about 30cm apart' drive up to the middle turn 1 and sit there shooting from turn 2 is a more useful one.

20cm and walker is a good fix for the cathedral.

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Increasing speed would certainly help, though I would not add walker just yet. Alternatively add Walker without the speed increase, which would make it able to navigate terrain and be much more effective in assaulting troops in terrain.

And what cost increase would you suggest in either configuration?

Right so I'm going with a speed increase and walker on the warengines. With 50 point increase on the chapels and 100 point increase on the cathedral, I may reduce the points if this proves to harsh.
I've not been able to play as many test games recently due to life getting in the way, but hope too do more testing on the SoB list and resolve the issues.

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Hi Consul AA

What are the chances of a new pdf dropping with the Seraphim changes etc?
Taking the list for a spin to a minigeddon event in 2 weeks time - then building up with a slow grow at club

I'll post up version 1.5, I had another game spamming seraphim against marines friday night and I am going with teleport for the seraphim with some small changes. I'm reducing their speed too 30cm to bring them more in line with assault marines and increasing their points to 250 points per formation.
Also I'm changing a few other things, I have been reading the 40k sister codex and changing the battle sister weapons to heavy flamers and retributors weapons to heavy bolters. First the fluff says retributors favoured weapons are heavy bolters, second it tones down the retributors fire power.
I'm also going with the formation of immorlators/repressors and swapping the inquisitorial warband with the inquisitorial armoured fist. The inquisitorial warband will have storm troopers as basic units and I have also simplified the henchmen too two types and deathcult assassin, I have also removed the support transport replacing it with the option too take sister transports.

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They all sound like great changes dude and I'll help you get some playtests with them.

I love the ideas of formations of immolators, I've been re-reading the Faith and Fire SoB books by James swallow again and the depictions of formations of these tanks moving in units really resonates with me. (Hopefully the formation has SM Pred/IG Hellhound like armor)

Can't wait to see it drop

Also some kind of anti titan solution besides the spaceship or weathering the entire board to assault the bloody things. Has anyone has any thoughts on this yet?

We have a bit of free reign in this regard i think, We could add back in titan allies but change up the standard weapon options like the current SM Imperial fists list that was approved. But i think this is something that is still missing in this list

I want to steer away from titans but something like the valdor tank hunter might work or a short range DC2 warengine?

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I'd give the chapel an option for TK weapons myself

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Yeah could have two versions one transport the other big gun.

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