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Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3

 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Has any thought been given to the idea that limiting hunter upgrades to exorcist formations makes exorcist formations a de facto requirement for people wishing to run an all-SoB army?

Would you be open to allowing the hunter to be taken as an upgrade to Retributor formations?


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:01 pm 
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Test post.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:11 pm 
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I did make mention of that earlier too but it got drowned out in the new codex chat. By 'all-Sob' I take it you mean without the Cathedral or Lightnings? It would cetainly encourage me to take retributors, which I've never really liked.

Had a few games since my last post, one with the newest iteration with the list. Got spanked by marines using a Warlord but was quite unlucky on that front as I fluffed the huge assault I set up to kill it. Been testing the different transport options, though I kind of need an answer to my question on the last page.

Need to model myself a couple of avengers as artillery is proving to be a pain.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:41 pm 
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Ok so I had another game last night, against steel legion and got spanked so hard I conceded the game at the beginning of turn 3 rather than watch my plan get torn apart.

So I wanted to try some things, firstly a little bit of spamming Exorcist fms, retributors again and the new avenger.

I'll start by declaring my hatred of vultures, I really should have tried to hit both formations right off the bat after winning the initiative but I didn't so I paid for it, dearly. I hit one fm using the avengers(1 kill, rest saved, 2bms) and let the initiative pass, my AA Exorcism formation was then wiped out(the hunter survived but never recovered) the guard retained and killed 2 exorcists from another formation. My plan was more than a little cracked here. I had some opportunities to bring it back but after some bad luck/good play by the guard I was hung out to dry by turn 3.

My List:
Code:
BTS Mission:
Heroine, Dominions, Repentia, Transport(2 Justice Immolators and enough rhinos, 1 spare)

Mission:
Heroin, Supreme Commander, Transport(2 Justice Immolators and 2 pair rhinos, 1 spare)

Retribution:
Transport(2 justice Immolators and 1 pair rhinos)

Choir
Heroine

Exorcism
Hunter

Exorcism
Exorcism
Chapels
Avengers
Lightnings

Guard list
Code:
Tank Company
Reg Hq
Ogryn

Storm Troopers + Valkyrie
Vultures
Vultures
Thunderbolts
Thunderbolts
Warhound Pair


Exorcists: It may have been the vultures but my taking 3 formations clearly didn't work for me, going to try the upgrade with the retributors next game.

Retributors: I'm convinced I need to give these another shot, still need to find a sweet spot for them.

Avengers: performed ok, need more testing to make up my mind about them. The Fighter/bomber stat is slightly misleeding given it's lack of forward facing AA but I realise it's great for disengagement moves.

Faithful: Trying to use faithful may well have lost me the game, I had a great setup on turn 2 that would have sent his russ company running but I failed to pass the 2+ roll even with the re-roll. There was at least 1 other Pray failure which broke the formation trying to act.
On the flipside my opponent did want me to pass on his feelings that it's a bit much that a broken formation that prayed on turn 1 should still be fearless 2 turns later.

Transports: Purchasing Rhinos by the pair is leaving spare ones in most formations they are a pest but give resilience, just seems strange having spares after using Marines. Not sure it's worth looking at.

I'd appreciate a resonse if possible Zombo however brief...


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:40 pm 
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re faithful - should you have just used a different order, or was faithful just not doing what it was supposed to?

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:50 pm 
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CaptainSenioris wrote:
Exorcists: It may have been the vultures but my taking 3 formations clearly didn't work for me, going to try the upgrade with the retributors next game.


Good to know. I'm not all that worried about spam, but it's good to test.

CaptainSenioris wrote:
Faithful: Trying to use faithful may well have lost me the game, I had a great setup on turn 2 that would have sent his russ company running but I failed to pass the 2+ roll even with the re-roll. There was at least 1 other Pray failure which broke the formation trying to act.


Risk vs Reward. 35 out of every 36 times you tried that it would have worked, and gained some nice bonuses in the process.

CaptainSenioris wrote:
On the flipside my opponent did want me to pass on his feelings that it's a bit much that a broken formation that prayed on turn 1 should still be fearless 2 turns later.


Yeah, but what's the alternative? If it resets at the start of the turn then ones that use it at the end of the last turn get no bonuses.

CaptainSenioris wrote:
Transports: Purchasing Rhinos by the pair is leaving spare ones in most formations they are a pest but give resilience, just seems strange having spares after using Marines. Not sure it's worth looking at.


Yeah, I'm aware of this. It's an experiment in getting rid of the annoying non-25 pricing structure, but it's not set in stone. Swings and roundabouts.

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:06 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
Yeah, but what's the alternative? If it resets at the start of the turn then ones that use it at the end of the last turn get no bonuses.


If I were to make a suggestion it would be to have the effect end for broken formations that fail to rally.

Thanks for the response!


Last edited by CaptainSenioris on Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:37 pm 
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madd0ct0r wrote:
re faithful - should you have just used a different order, or was faithful just not doing what it was supposed to?

Faithful can be used alongside any order but the activation roll is made with a -1 modifier to your initiative, so it was less the choice of order and more the choice to pray. Entering a potentially risky assault with my BTS , it was pretty much a no brainer to gain fearless. The failure left me in the open in a soon to be crossfire between a point blank russ co and a pair of warhounds.

As Zombo says though it was really bad luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Got another game in against the same chap but have made some significant changes to my list, deciding to put my faith in other units. Namely I've ditched all the immolators and the dominion upgrades that I have almost always used, and instead decided to trial exorcists as an upgrade. It also let me boost my activation count with sentinels. I've put a batrep at the end for those who'd like to read it, I don't think I do too good a job describing what happened without needing way more pics than I have but people might find it worth reading.
Thoughts:
Retributors: I like these now, adding exorcists went great!

Avengers: for ground attack these are miles better than thunderbolts, I somehow missed the forward AA shot last time I used them. Might be too cheap...

Faithful: I succeeded a lot with this in last night's game, never passed an invulnrable save but fearless was great as usual. If I used the idea I suggested above(lose faithful on a failed rally roll) my exorcist fm would have been thunderbolt bait. My opponent agreed also agreed with this idea, it wouldn't have have had a huge impact on this game but it would in others.

List construction: with the way I'm now constructing/using lists, I'm beginning to see some formations/units in a less favourable light, either due to cost/survivability/speed. Even penitents, an old staple of mine, are getting left in my case, in favour of a couple of extra activations. This is a shame IMO.



Lists used:



Ministorum

Code:
Mission: Transport(2 sets of rhinos)
Mission: Heroine, Supreme Commander, Transport(2 sets of rhinos)
Retribution: Heroine, Transport(2 sets of rhinos rhinos) & Exorcists
Choir: Heroine
Exorcism: Hunter
Cathedral (BTS)
Chapels
Avengers
Avengers
Scout Sentinels
Scout Sentinels




Guard list(from memory)
Code:
Tank Company: Hydra
Reg Hq: Hydra
Storm Troopers + Valkyrie
Vultures
Vultures
Thunderbolts
Thunderbolts
Warhound Pair




Battle report
The few pics I have aren't great but they may help with context.

We drew on the turn 1 strategy roll, making this the first time I've ever used the birthday rule! I took full advantage of this by using my Avengers to attack both the garrisoned(overwatch) vultures, my opponent did have hydras but had foccused his deployment on a pincer move(Russ/RegHQ on one flank, warhounds on the other & vultures in the middle), this had left his vultures in a postion where I could attack them out of flak range. So the Avengers took the first activation and a retain, 1 killed 2 and the retain killed 3 from the other formation, both commisars were slain. A lucky (overwatch)sentinel managed to kill another with a blast marker as they disengaged. The guard returned the favour and destroyed all my avengers using both his thunderbolts. flying into their blind spot(between fixed forward and rear)... totally worth it!

Pics:
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc18 ... AG0516.jpg
The 1st formation of vultures was behind the towers, the second just out of shot behind the forrest. The Hydras would be out of shot to the top left.
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc18 ... AG0517.jpg
Vulture fms fled together to here.
Wider view of battlefield, objective in centre is where a lot of the action happened:
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc18 ... AG0518.jpg



This probably won me the game(I hate vultures) but it didn't all go my way, I pushed my two missions up the middle and my exorcists were lured into the mix by the warhounds which left all three intermingled with a sentinel formation that I had stretched thinly across the middle of the board. The guard then moved his RegHQ into position to support the Stormtroopers in a clipping assault that my sisters would take no part in. Long story short I lost a couple of exorcists to supporting fire and the sentinels all died, the rest had prayed so only broke and fled. My retribution filled the gap vacated by the rest of my army and with help from the cathedral downsized the ReqHQ a fair chunk.

Start of turn 2 my seraphim then somehow pulled off an assault against the Warhounds(resolution took 3 rounds, all seraphim and 1 warhound destroyed), taking them both out of the game. This left my retribution free to punish RegHQ, killing the supreme commander and breaking what was left securing a T&H objective. My rallied Missions were in a position to take his Blitz(formerly guarded by the warhounds) and support the T&H held by the retributors if necessary. In return the guard attacked the retributors with the storm troopers and hammered the chapels with both of the thunderbolts.My Cathedral attacked the stormtroopers, killing the 2 stands(inc the commissar) & a valkyrie. My chapels moved to protect the blitzkrieg, which was looking vulnrable to the flanking Russ Co.

By the start of turn three it was looking grim for the IG, the remaining warhound had failed to rally whereas my Exorcist fm had finally rallied along with my remaining 2 sentinels. The Sisters won initiative and started by pulling my cathedral back into cover, shooting the stormtroopers that were contesting the T&H, they broke and fled. I retained and cheekily doubled my sentinels into a position that would force the leman russ to destroy them or drive through a forrest to get to my blitz, which would place them at point blank with both my superheavies. The Guard then tried to clear the sentinels with one of his thunderbolts but failed to act due to bms. I advanced my retribution to totally secure the central T&H and finished off the freshly rallied vulture. The guard then succeeded to act with the other thunderbolts and broke the sentinels, I fled but still managed too keep them in position to force the Leman russ to use the forrest.

Pics
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc18 ... AG0519.jpg
Fear my sentinel and his path blocking ways.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc18 ... AG0520.jpg
War engines covering the forrest/blitz.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc18 ... AG0521.jpg
My Retributors on the T&H, the other T&H is behind the forrest and the blitzkrieg is just visible in the top right beside my Mission.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc18 ... AG0522.jpg
Mission takes Blitz, remains of stormtroopers driven off.

I had Blitz & T&H in the bag and the guard would have a fairly hard job getting just Blitzkrieg so we decided to call it at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Been meaining to post another battle result, game near the end of last year, played swordwind Biel-tan Eldar(the only 'new' adjustment we used was the pulse changes as I couldn't find my erratta pdf). Game ended in a 1-1 draw on turn 4, we chose not to add up VPs as we were happy calling it a draw. If I remember/find his list I'll post it up but I used the list from my last post.

I can see why they removed spirit stones, his revenants were an absolute PITA, I broke them early on but they just kept coming back.

I'm almost certain that Avengers are too cheap.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 6:23 am 
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Good to see the list still being developed :)

I've talked Vaaish into adding the Avenger into the AM lit but the stats look a little off. It's basically got half a short-ranged Vulcan Mega Bolter and that's how it's statted in 40k with the VMB having 15 x S6 AP3 shots and the Avenger Bolt Cannon having 7 x S6 AP3 shots. It looks just like half a VMB too.

30cm AP3+/AT5+ would be appropriate and fit with how deadly the weapon is described as being. I think 150 is too cheap even with the existing stats but with those stats it'll need a cost bump.

Vaaish is coming up with his own stats for the aircraft but I hope we don't go down the route of having two versions of the same unit again and that stats can be agreed on and the unit given playtests from both lists.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Moving over on this, I've been going over the stats for the Avenger but I'm unclear as to how the Avenger Bolt Cannon stats were arrived at. It's supposed to be half of a VMB. We've had stats for the VMB since the core rulebook came out, so why doesn't the Avenger bolt cannon just use those stats at 30cm with half the shots?

I'd like to maintain consistency as much as possible between the AMTL weapons so would you be opposed to the Avenger Bolt Cannon using the same stats as the VMB with 2x shots and 30cm range?

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:51 pm 
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Anyone have an comments, opinions, or objections about the Avenger Bolt Cannon stats above?

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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:43 pm 
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The text for the Militia Chimera has a typo, chose should read chosen.


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 Post subject: Re: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:29 am 
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Fraternis Milita is miss-spelt in the list - the correct spelling has no n and should be Frateris.


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