Having just checked the Ordo Malleus list, I would say that it is significantly cleaned up compared to earlier version, and still packs a lot of flavour. I have purchased some last-minute FW Daemonhunters and looking at the list, I came up with a couple of questions:

Are Purgation Squads basically Grey Knight Devastators?

The Dreadnought Spearhead can be transported in a Thunderhawk Gunship, but not in the Strike Cruiser (with the Thunderhawks). Is this an oversight or intended?

The Grey Knight Strike Cruiser can transport 20 Land Raiders, but why? Is it the units (as it stands) or formations that gain Teleport?

Oversights/typos:

Grey Knight Terminators: Holocaust is noted as both a weapon and special ability.

Grey Knight Strike Cruiser: The transport note still mentions Pegasus Landers.

/Fredmans

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The mystic should be 50 points and lose the First Strike from the notes (but not the weapon). The Holocaust ability should simply be removed.

Ordo Hereticus v3.3
The "Penitents" upgrade is not listed as an Inquisitorial/IG/SoB upgrade.

I think the Net-EA Dreadnought Stats should be adopted for consistency, even if it means they need to be tested and possibly made more expensive.

IA7 should be out in the not too distant future according to the FW newsletter, so that will mean new background and units for the Grey Knights

Thanks to the FW debacle I now have a company of Grey Knights and a dozen Dreads and will get some games in with them later on in the year.

Thanks for the answers. I also spotted another thing in the Ordo Malleus list. The Land Raider Transport in the army list says "Inquisitor only". On the Land Raider datafax, it says 2 Inquisitorial Retinue units. I think the confusion comes from the detachment and unit both being named Inquisitor. As I understand it, the entire Retinue can purchase Land Raiders, right? Perhaps the formation should be named Inquisitorial Retinue.

Another thing, the Inquisition Battleship can carry an Inquisition Drop Fortress. I assume that this is the Black Citadel (since it can Planetfall), and not the Obsidian Fortress which seems to be a fortress on tracks (?).

I am really looking forward to trying this list. The only thing that makes me a little concerned is the Dreadnought Spearhead being a little too cheap (if you decide to go with 3+ Save), but I should try it out (in a T-hawk) before I can really say anything.

As for the Purgators, I do not know. Are there 40K Purgators?

/Fredmans

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Purgators are the Devestators of the Grey Knights, similarly having 2 x the amount of heavy weapons compared to a standard one of their squads. They are a unit choice in W40k and I think it's reasonable to include them, though I can't comment from a game perspective. What are your reasons for thinking of dropping them Lord I?

Glyn: I'll try to keep consistent with the other lists, although I'm starting to get frustrated in doing so. I don't know exactly what's happening with the Crusader, for example, and I'm disinclined to change it again. One of the disadvantages of non-centralised development! That said, I don't believe the 3+ save dreads are actually set in stone yet, so let's stick with the 4+ ones for the time being. They'd definately be worth more at 3+.

As for the purgation squads, they just feel like unnecessary faff (it's bloody hard to distinguish the stands for starters.) You think they should stay?

fredmans: Ha! Okay, interesting issue. The intent is that only the Inquisitor may select a Land Raider as a transport, but he can still fit another stand of retinue to ride along. So Inquisitors may select 0-1 Land Raider as part of their formation's transport.

Yes, the Drop Fortress was the old name for the Black Citadel. I'll fix that.

Glad you like the list! Please do let me know any and all feedback, it's been a while since I've even heard of anyone playing...

LI: Hopefully when the netERC army book comes out matters like the 3+ armour dreads and crusader stats will become clearer.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I'd hope to see the Inquisition lists in the Net-EA Army Book personally, and I think Lord I intended to. Which would mean they'd need to be established and tested first.

Modelling a Purgator stand doesn't seem any harder than modelling a Devestator stand does it? - just have a stand with two of the Psycannon holding Grey Knights on there. I'd like them to stay personally, there's only two other types of Grey Knights infantry in there, so it's not like there's over many already. Most armies will have a heavy support 2 x shots of the basic infantry unit, and I don't see any reason to bar Grey Knights from having them.

Concerning Purgators, I have to echo Glyn G. It is not any different from how you base Tacticals and Devastators in a regular Space Marine army.

I also think the trade-off (same points, different units) between Grey Knights and Purgators seems fair. I definitely see uses for both units.

/Fredmans

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A semi-offtopic question.

Is there anything stating against the likes of Deathwatch Assault squads? Would they have specialized bolt pistols if so?

Also whats the general idea on Grey Knights and Deathwatch not being able to field the standard stock of SM vehicles? I know the Deathwatch are more leaning towards fast quick strikes ... just wondered what the opinion was.

Sorry for the hijack, but thought I'd go to the Inquisition experts

Raising the dead, and sorry if this is a little premature:

I'd like to reference THIS thread that I started on Warseer. Alot of it was reaction on my part to having discovered both Lord I's list and Zombo's list and found that some of the parts didnt work the way I would have expected to. I will admit that Ive cooled down a bit

I have also studied Zombocom's list a lot more and discovered that in the end, I actually prefer it to the v3.3 Ordo Hereticus list. I play Sisters of Battle, not "Witch Hunters", so the specialized focus of the list sits better with me.

I'm A-OK on how Pray works, for now Zombo's list has Repressors. Exorcists have averaged out their shots and become much cheaper. The "made up" Banishers are replaced with Hunters. Some unit stat changes puzzle me slightly, like removing MW from Arco-Flagellants, but overall, good to go.

Im going to make my case for Dominions versus Retributors one last time. If the community thinks Im off my rocker, well then, ok

The question was posed, "Do the Dominions have a different role to fill or am I wanting them mostly for fluff?"

I think the answer is "Different Role", and I believe the gap between roles is staggering.

We have 3 core units to consider here: Battle Sisters, Retributors, and Dominions.

Transport: All 3 units may be transported, however the Dominions MUST be transported.
MW-style firepower: Battle Sisters may take 2 special weapons in a 10-girl squad. Retributors may take 4, and the Dominions may take 4. However, the type and size of these weapons differ. The most efficient distribution: 2 Meltas in Sisters, 4 Multi-Meltas in Retributors, 4 Meltas in Dominions.
Combination - Can your Sisters do this? Can your unit zip up to enemy armor, jump out and unleash fiery DEATH upon them?
*Sisters can, but only with 2 Meltas
*Dominions can, and this is their job, with 4 Meltas. Up close and personal, with really no other options
*Retirbutors? CAN'T. Multi-Meltas have greater range, but are Heavy weapons and so do not allow a "Jump-out-and-fire" tactic"

What does this mean, in my opinion?

Battle Sisters: I believe both lists got this right. I always took flamers in my Sisters units anyway.

Retibutors: I think Lord I got this 100% wrong. Retributors stand back and fire away, and in a Sister-only force (which, in 40K, maximized Faith Points, a key ingredient to winning) they were the only long ranged firepower in the entire army except for Exorcists. Zombocom got this almost right, by acknowledging that Heavy Bolters belong in the unit and therefore maintaining their ability to put 2 shots down range, but no unit would split its firepower so drastically. Its the argument of putting Eldar Falcons in with Fire Prisms - if a unit has to get THAT close to bring some of its firepower to bear, why have the longer ranged stuff?

I say, give the Rets 2x Heavy Bolter fire and leave it at that. Space Marines get Dev squads fulfilling this role. I believe the Sisters need an equivalent. Do IG fulfill this role as well? Sure. Rets do it better.

Dominions: I can honestly say that no Adeptus Sororitas unit is as accomplished in close-up Anti-Armor duties than the Dominions. They exist for the close up double tap, the pounding of armor for the Sisters following behind. I would use them as such, with a pell-mell rush, jump out and light up some Armor before retaining and swarming in with other units for a Dominion-assisted Assault. Would 2x MW shots be over the top for this formation of, say, 6 Dominions in their Immolator? Likely. But give each stand even 1 MW weapon and you'd be giving them the tools to do what they do best, in a much different capacity than any other formation in the Adeptas Sororitas list.

How would I form my list around having 3 differing units like this? I would likely try 2 formations of Sisters (one mobile, one not), with a mobile formation of Dominions and a non-mobile formation of Retibutors.

That is my case. I definately see a difference, in fluff, in 40K, AND in Epic: Armageddon, in the role these 3 units operate. Please tell me why I am wrong, because I will freely admit that I could be. I just dont think I am >:D

Kealios: Bear in mind that if dominions were introduced, they wouldn't have a shooting attack. Meltaguns only give a MW firefight attack, they simply aren't long enough ranged for a shooting attack, no matter how many of them the squad can take. With this in mind, would you still want them in the list given that they couldn't be used to "double tap"?

Given Lord I's absence, perhaps this should be discussed in the thread for my list, since there is currently little chance of his list getting updated.

Righto. Moving there.

I... return...

I have some Inquisition-related updates and I'll see about updating all three lists in the next few weeks. I have skimmed through your Adeptus Ministorum list and I like the idea of having an Ordo Hereticus list and a Ministorum list, and I'm most happy to coordinate our efforts to make the lists gel. I'll post my comments on your variant list in your thread.

Great to see you back LordI!

Be cool if you and Zombo could work together to get the units matching in both lists.

Have u seen the 'Astronun' models Zombo has CADed? They're made of awesome!