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Orders Malleus Grey Knights v1.4

 Post subject: Orders Malleus Grey Knights v1.4
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Army List v1.4
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0X1l ... mFqSFdJX2s
Reference Sheet v1.4
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0X1l ... 0VrMloyVFk

Have made a few changes, including:

* Removed Imperial agents as they will make the balancing of the list more complicated. Long term I will be looking to add them back in.

* Reduced Dreadknights armour save

* Reduced Purgation FF

* Added in Brotherhood Banner upgrade as list was lacking Inspire

My direction for the list is to have an elite ground force which is supported by a comprehensive range of air and space options. I welcome feedback on any aspect of the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Malleus Grey Knights v1.4
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:15 pm 
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Thank you for this - I know I have stalled out on Epic completely but I still plan on running / playtesting Grey Knights - in the nebulous future >.>

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Ben Sibbald

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EPIC Armageddon WIP: Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Eldar
Warmaster Armies: Chaos, High Elves
Warmaster WIP: Dark Elves, Empire, Vampire Counts, Kislev etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Malleus Grey Knights v1.4
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:38 pm 
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I should be playing a game this month. Expect a battle report where you can marvel at my lack of skill!


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Malleus Grey Knights v1.4
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:26 am 
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As an absolute amateur - what lists would you choose?

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Ben Sibbald

Personal & Wargaming Blog: http://www.theancienttrack.blogspot.co.uk

EPIC Armageddon WIP: Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Eldar
Warmaster Armies: Chaos, High Elves
Warmaster WIP: Dark Elves, Empire, Vampire Counts, Kislev etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Malleus Grey Knights v1.4
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:27 am 
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I'm basically going to try 1 of everything i can pack in to get a feel for the army first. Then I'll be trying to spam stuff to check for over powered builds.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Malleus Grey Knights v1.4
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:13 pm 
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So ive played Grey knight now for about 2 years, getting lucky enough to have gotten the official models from FW

I am all for them being elite and a little more expensive for better gear, but at the game time, they have to be playable.

I really don't get the change of Strike Squads from 300 for 6 to 325 for 6.

Im fine with tossing out the inquisition stuff mostly as id like just grey knights.

Was the 2+ FF for Purg to good? Feel like that should have stayed 2+

this isn't specifically targeted at you, but the rule of thumb is in a 3k game, you want at least 10 activations. They seem to really struggle with that.

They are a CC/FF army. The big problem is to make their units good and solid, able to win assaults, you need to add in eternal warriors/characters to many squads. That gets very expensive, for something that isn't that great.

Right now I have

6 Strike - Grand Master 2 Dreadnoughts 1 hunter+Rhinos
6 Strike - Libarian 2 Dreadnoughts - 1 Hunter Rhinos
4 Purge - 1 Brother champion
4 Purge
Thunderhawk gunship (both Purge transport to assault in it)
4 Interceptor - 2 Dreadknights (teleport in)
4 Land Raiders
2 Fighters
2 Fighters
4 Terminators - normal master

Its around 3600 some points. To fit it in, I have to drop the interceptor squad, and both squads of fighters. Gives 7 Activations, which is way low as the killing power isn't that high


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Malleus Grey Knights v1.4
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:51 pm 
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scourn1 wrote:
So ive played Grey knight now for about 2 years, getting lucky enough to have gotten the official models from FW

I am all for them being elite and a little more expensive for better gear, but at the game time, they have to be playable.

I really don't get the change of Strike Squads from 300 for 6 to 325 for 6.

Im fine with tossing out the inquisition stuff mostly as id like just grey knights.

Was the 2+ FF for Purg to good? Feel like that should have stayed 2+

this isn't specifically targeted at you, but the rule of thumb is in a 3k game, you want at least 10 activations. They seem to really struggle with that.

They are a CC/FF army. The big problem is to make their units good and solid, able to win assaults, you need to add in eternal warriors/characters to many squads. That gets very expensive, for something that isn't that great.

Right now I have

6 Strike - Grand Master 2 Dreadnoughts 1 hunter+Rhinos
6 Strike - Libarian 2 Dreadnoughts - 1 Hunter Rhinos
4 Purge - 1 Brother champion
4 Purge
Thunderhawk gunship (both Purge transport to assault in it)
4 Interceptor - 2 Dreadknights (teleport in)
4 Land Raiders
2 Fighters
2 Fighters
4 Terminators - normal master

Its around 3600 some points. To fit it in, I have to drop the interceptor squad, and both squads of fighters. Gives 7 Activations, which is way low as the killing power isn't that high


I could look at lowering the Strikes to 300...but that's only going to save you 50 across your whole list.....

I think the feeling on the Pargations was that 2+ was too good, but I'm open to opinions on that.

I agree that it's difficult to get a lot of activations, especially ground formations that can score objectives. I'd say that is my biggest struggle in producing a viable list. It will need to be solved for the list to move out of experimental status.

Have you tried running one or two imperial warbands?


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Malleus Grey Knights v1.4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:54 pm 
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danielcollins wrote:
scourn1 wrote:
So ive played Grey knight now for about 2 years, getting lucky enough to have gotten the official models from FW

I am all for them being elite and a little more expensive for better gear, but at the game time, they have to be playable.

I really don't get the change of Strike Squads from 300 for 6 to 325 for 6.

Im fine with tossing out the inquisition stuff mostly as id like just grey knights.

Was the 2+ FF for Purg to good? Feel like that should have stayed 2+

this isn't specifically targeted at you, but the rule of thumb is in a 3k game, you want at least 10 activations. They seem to really struggle with that.

They are a CC/FF army. The big problem is to make their units good and solid, able to win assaults, you need to add in eternal warriors/characters to many squads. That gets very expensive, for something that isn't that great.

Right now I have

6 Strike - Grand Master 2 Dreadnoughts 1 hunter+Rhinos
6 Strike - Libarian 2 Dreadnoughts - 1 Hunter Rhinos
4 Purge - 1 Brother champion
4 Purge
Thunderhawk gunship (both Purge transport to assault in it)
4 Interceptor - 2 Dreadknights (teleport in)
4 Land Raiders
2 Fighters
2 Fighters
4 Terminators - normal master

Its around 3600 some points. To fit it in, I have to drop the interceptor squad, and both squads of fighters. Gives 7 Activations, which is way low as the killing power isn't that high


I could look at lowering the Strikes to 300...but that's only going to save you 50 across your whole list.....

I think the feeling on the Pargations was that 2+ was too good, but I'm open to opinions on that.

I agree that it's difficult to get a lot of activations, especially ground formations that can score objectives. I'd say that is my biggest struggle in producing a viable list. It will need to be solved for the list to move out of experimental status.

Have you tried running one or two imperial warbands?


I guess my point about the points to 300 is just to be consistent. Yea, its 50 points saved, but it should match what it used to be.

Personally I don't think 2+ FF is to good. Khornes had 2+ in CC for a long long time. Deathwing termies also have 2+. Yea its CC and not FF, but still.

I guess how I would do it is as Marines, rule of thumb is 10 activations. 10 units that are on average 300 points. One might be 275, while another is 325. Im not saying GK should match. They are supposed to be the best of the best. Though that is hard to really bring to the scale of Epic.

I can try to take a look t the list and do suggestions. Off the top of my head, why not a unit of dreads by itself for 200 pts? Or the Dreadknights as a unit by themselves for 300 points? They are supposed to be in elite squads able to self govern what they do. More special forces, less army.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Malleus Grey Knights v1.4
PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Played a game with them this weekend. 3k points. Standard game.

Was against Black Legion Chaos.

He used:
2 Deathwheels
2 Big squads of marines+havoks
1 basic squad of marines
Bike Squad
Defilers
Terminators with Demon Prince

I used:
Thunderhawk
2 Purg Squads
Terminators with 3 dreadknights
2 strike squads with 2 dreadnoughts twin auto
4 Land Raiders

Over all, it was a bloodbath. GK got slaughtered. Issue is like I stated, most armies can get to 10 activations. He did 7, but he had a ton more fire power then I ever could.

The only thing that was good is first turn I flew in the Purg squads, both FF his Deathwheels. He failed all 4 rerollable armor saves, lost by 4 and lost his other wheel. that is a huge fluke though. After that it was all over for the GK. (I have pics if they would like to be seen, just didn't want to upload unless needed)

Here is my suggestions to improve them to make them playable. Until some changes are done though, they remain unplayable.

Strike Squad - 300 points instead of 325. Literally no reason to be 25 more points then last edition of this.

Purgation Squad FF of 2+ like it was from the now current 3+. No reason to change this. Many other weapons people can take or combat values are 2+. They are supposed to be the elite of the elite, but they are not even close.

Deamonbane - Army rule. CC values and FF Values improve by 1 while fighting a unit with Deamons in it. (Maximum of 2+). The entire point of them is to hunt deamons. they used to have special rules for this. This doesent make them that more powerful as first you have to fight Chaos, then they have to actually have deamons to summon, then you need to CC or FF them to get the bonus.

Support Formations:

Formation Units Upgrades Cost
Dreadknight Squad 4 Dreadknights None 225
Dreadnought Squad 4 Grey Knight Dreadnought None 150


Over all, not huge changes, but they need it so they don't have huge blobs of guys. Balance of armies is based a lot on activations.


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