Now that the Grey Knights is approaching in 40K, I'm looking to get back involved with the ITF lists, particularly the Ordo Malleus lists. I know that fattdex has been brewing his own list based on the new book and I've been in contact with him. This isn't really a thread about spitballing changes to the list but a question as to what direction people think the list should go in.

Firstly, I'm pretty happy with the Ordo Malleus Inquisitorial Task Force as it is. It's been quite extensively playtested and I know there were a few mechanics people didn't like for one reason or another, it works. It has a unique playstyle which was fun and not particularly overpowered. Certainly there was room for improvement, but by and large I'm quite happy it's within tolerable balance limits.

Now it is clear the new Grey Knight book makes GKs very different in 40K.
- Reduced combat capablilties: one attack each, no WS boost in 40K
- No Fearless, but TSKNF instead
- Stormraven, Rhinos and Razorbacks as transports
- No Stormtroopers, only Inquisitorial retinues
- Shrouding only a psychic power now

Bringing these changes across to Epic more-or-less means a total reboot and having to start playtesting again. Removing Fearless I'm sure would be welcomed (although Grey Knights never really had the issues other Fearless lists were plagued by). Shrouding had it's use in Epic but could be removed (especially with Stormravens added) and save a special rule (and certain forum members would leave me alone about it )

What is it the community wants? A few tweaks but keep the format of the list the same, even though it is based on the old Grey Knights or a total reboot?

Jumping in to say hi- As per chats with Lord Inquisitor I am happy to try develop the standalone Grey Knights list (in the Astartes forum ;-) ) alongside LI's Inquisition list, with the goal of porting some of the Grey Knights in my list which are more based in the new fluff/units back into his mixed inquisition list if it playtests well. In my list following the new 40k book, the grey knights will have all of the above transport options listed and ATSKNF in place of fearless as well as other changes. I think that they should port well into the existing Inquisition list, if only the same/similar units are transplanted (not taking all GK transport options, not transporting all units, etc) as their unit functions should be the same in the context of LI's list if they have basically the same formation availability there. I am beginning my playtesting of the standalone list next week so there is a long time to release for that one anyway (aiming for a public test release just after the 40k book is released in april).

Seeing there has never been a Developmental list available for play in tournaments for the GK (inquisitorial or otherwise), I think a reboot is the best option to encourage the flood of new players that may pick up the hobby.

Sticking to the 'old regime' will only have people ask "why" and cause changes later if not picked up from the start.

This is a great opportunity to get it right with community backing and updated interest.

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Frogbear is responsible for...
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The big thing is the units really need to be roughly proportional to their abilities in 40K. In other words, they can't be super-marines in Epic if they aren't super-marines in 40K. A little better is okay, but they should be in the same ballpark and keep the appropriate flavor and feel.


These are going to affect point values, but I think you need to factor them in. Luckily, there are lots of comparable units for non-Fearless SM units with varying stats. It should not be hard to zero these in fairly quickly.

I'd say aim for a medium ground between the historical GK bad-ass-ness and the latest 40K codex. It's probably justified to keep a modest boost to assault values and possibly even armor based on their ubiquitous psychic abilities - just abstract out to overall net effects. You could also build in more abilities on characters if desired, e.g. unusually strong Librarians for +75 points.


I think these force org changes are non-issues. Your last Ordo Malleus force only had IG companies, not Stormtroopers, and that's easy enough to cut. BA has assault-oriented SMs in Stormravens, so that's an easy comp for determining total utility.

So, I think your overall list structure can stay very close to the same as it is now. It seems the ideas fattdex floated are pretty similar. I don't think you even need to have a core/support division. If you have some rare stuff in the list that you want to restrict, I'd say just make it "0-1/x points" like the Inquisitors are currently. Purifier, Purgation and Paladin units could be in dedicated formations and/or available as upgrades, depending on their availability in the background and how you want to allow specialization/flexibility in the list.

There's no harm having a seperate Grey Knights list along side the maleus one, much like my Ecclesiarchy list alongside the witch hunters list.

Which reminds me, we really need to finish consolidating stats.

Yes. I would prefer this as a representation of their abilities rather than having GK specific special rules.

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I have played the old list quite a lot, and I like its flavour a lot. Fearless in small formations with ATSKNF had little impact in my view, and as you pointed out yourself, it worked and was not overpowered.

Discarding the old list completely in order to satisfy the latest GW whims would be a shame in my opinion.

/Fredmans

Neal: the OM list had Stormtroopers as a "core" Inquisitorial formation, but I think you're right on the other stuff. I will aim for a simplified list structure.

Zombocom: I'm happy to look at consolidated stats. Shoot me an email whenever you are happy with your Ecclesiarchy stats.

Fredmans: Cheers! Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. The ITF can stay as the ITF and a port-from-40K Grey Knight list can be a whole different list. I think it's going to be hard to ignore some of the rammifications (rhinos, reduced combat abilities, etc) though.

Black Box showed up at the Chicago Bunker today. However in order to see the book right now you need to have a preorder on it. I don't do regular 40k so I'm not going to see the book beforehand. That being said, One of the new units is a Dread Knight. Yes. The Grey Knights get a KNIGHT class model and it was in the black box. It's about double the height of a regular marine dreadnought, has a autocannon class weapon on one arm and a sword on the other arm and the pilot is in a harness on the front.

Black Box showed up at the Chicago Bunker today. However in order to see the book right now you need to have a preorder on it. I don't do regular 40k so I'm not going to see the book beforehand. That being said, One of the new units is a Dread Knight. Yes. The Grey Knights get a KNIGHT class model and it was in the black box. It's about double the height of a regular marine dreadnought, has a autocannon class weapon on one arm and a sword on the other arm and the pilot is in a harness on the front.

Plz don't do a dreadknight for epic. K THX BYE

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