By the way, space elvenesque objective structures are still available. Those never went away - all you have to do is PM me. I have to restock, though, so some items are limited availability until the restock.

Also, from the pictures posted of Epic tourneys, I'd wager someone (NOT me) is producing space elven vehicles and robots. Whether those vehicles date from the dark age of proxying, or they are in fact still in production is something I do not know. I suspect that a secret hand shake is involved.

Well, I have recently learned that some of the Exodus wars models are the work of Bob Naismith, no less than the guy who sculpted the first space marine. I find myself thinking that it would be a good idea, at least when it's not obvious (like Onslaught miniature models being made by Don Carr) to mention the sculptor of the miniatures in their descriptions.

A Lot of miniature collectors follow the work of specific sculptors closely, and I think many would be interested to know who are the artists behind the sculpts.

I reckon a competent modeller could take a 40K Dire Avenger and some bits and turn out a workable Revenant proxy in 60 minutes.

Before there was a model we used to make Warp Spiders from the pile of spare 1st ed Exarchs we had left over. I reckon you could kit bash one out of a standard Space Marine without too much work. Clip a couple of arms off an Onslaught Abomination and add a bit of stretched sprue would probably work too.

http://www.onslaughtmini.com/29-terran-hybrid-abominations.html

It's all in the paint for Warp Spiders!

I think the scratch build angle is a bit of a side track. There's a world of difference between "x is technically possible" and "x is available to buy online". I for one am pretty much never going to scratch build anything as I don't have the skill, am too lazy, don't have any bitz collection or knowledge of other models that might work for bitz.

So, the fact that something can be scratch built has pretty much zero effect on the market demand for a model.

Personally the models I think are most needed are:
Thunderhawk
Hunter/Predator/whirlwind turrets that aren't 3d printed
Eldar revenants
Eldar flyers
Eldar SHTs
Eldar wraith guard
Most newer eldar tanks etc
Tau (except tanks and infantry)
Necrons (except warriors)
Probably lots of chaos but I don't know much about them

Some things exist but aren't readily available, others exist on shape ways but are incredibly expensive (Necrons)

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I have a range of scratch building skills *and* a fair collection of models made by 3rd parties via CAD prints. I'm happy with both and would pick between the two different paths for different things. There are a number of things I wouldn't buy a full production mini of if they fall into the category of 'meh i could make that myself for minimal effort'.* That something can be scratch built definitely alters what I am willing to buy. This was the case under GW as well, they had a lot of epic products i never bought as they'd have been so easy to DIY. Same goes for terrain. I'll probably never buy a trench system as it's so easy to make by the meter for little time/effort/materials. I might buy nice buildings at a cheap price, however, as this is more effort (windows!).

Another factor is style matching. I imagine the market for not-quite-space-pharoe proxies is higher as they don't have to fit in with an existing GW aesthetic at epic scale. People might be more fussy about a thunderhawk proxy as most people have buckets of GW marines already (though i'd guess demand for thakws is so high this would be overcome with ease). It always surprised me that there was a demand for CAD rhinos, given that the old plastic ones cost pennies, but people want new style shinny things.

Scratch building is something I enjoy and I think that many people who feel they lack the skills might be surprised at what can be achieved with relative ease! If you have the skills the move a brush about in a detailed way at 6mm you can almost certainly scratch build competently. At the same time I am also very satisfied with community and small company made proxys, there is certainly room for both and the list in first post has some good suggestions for what might sell.

Someone will probably make a lot on a publicly saleable t-hawk proxy and there does indeed seem to be a very high demand for eldar SHT like things

* I appreciate that what i think falls into this category may be different from other peoples' views. I might, for example, quite happily sit down to scratchbuild an eldar SHT from plasticcard and milliput if i needed one.

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Hmmm... How big was an epic FW t-hawk again?

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The GW eldar look is quite distinctive, they got some of the best looking updated models in the last edition, and I think globally they look like one of the army people use as little proxy as possible in (at the opposite end I guess we'd find orks, where most people are OK using non-official models).

I don't know if it's allowed to even talk about it, but frankly concerning Eldars SHT and a few items like Thunderhawks and generally FW flyers, I'd be surprised if a recaster market doesn't appear sooner or later.

I personally have enough of both these models for my needs - and no caster skills - but I know for some hard to find and OOP models, I'd probably be happy to buy recasts (FW harridans anyone ?). Damn, I'd be happy to buy recasts of some OOP non-official proxy.

And I would definitely be in the market for "suitable" proxy of some models that either never existed, or never were updated to a less 90's look, like quite a few tyranid models, but a truescale warlord or a truescale phantom titan come to mind as well. Of course, what makes a "suitable" proxy can vary quite a bit depending on the customer, and one has to accept that for some of the potential customers, nothing but an exact copy (recast or re-creation) would do - which is obviously illegal.

I am quite fond of some models made "in the style of...", but as distinct creations, like Scream's tunnelers or Wintermann "ground bugs" from the French community (and of course some of the ranges of Onslaught but onslaught is looking more and more like its own particular case). This is an interesting route, and for some models, like for example a true-scale warlord, that never had any existing miniatures made, I think there is quite a market.

Jonluke one (TS warlord proxy) from a few years back looked great, and to me it is a tragedy that SCP bought it to never get it produced. A style can't be copyrighted, and It could have been produced at least as a small-run production (It was a huge model), but it seems at the time SCP (and possibly everyone) was so scared of GW Legal might they didn't even dare to produce a miniature that would even look like it could possibly be from their range, even an entirely original one.

I don't know if Tom has opinions, inside knowledge or thoughts about this particular case - I'd genuinely be interested to know - but I know I would have been ready to buy at least one, and probably 3 of this particular model at the time, even at a premium price (say, 50£ !) given its huge size and complexity.
I guess everyone was terrified of GW at that time, but I really can't see on what ground they could even try to claim anything about a wholly original miniature.

Bottomline ... we all must remember GW copywrites ... As I said, if you want something that looks a lot like GW ... eBay or Bartertown still has a lot of Epic for sale. For other things that GW never produced ... certainly one must think out of the box ... whether current model makers or those who want to scratch-build ...

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I do this already, especially in 15mm. When I see the work of Mark Mondragon or John Bear Ross for vehicles, or PF for infantry, I immediately make a point of looking. So I think it's a good idea if possible.



This is true. Eldar are distinctive enough that you really can't make a close-looking proxy as you might a Space Marine or Imperial Guard (whose vehicles are themselves thinly-veiled reproductions of classic historical designs).

I suspect that we'll almost certainly see recasters popping up. I've seen some already, both on ebay and in the black market. It's a weird situation, because while GW has pulled the designs, there is clearly still healthy demand for them. I can't condone using a recaster or violating their copyrights, but it's not surprising that it's happened.



Well, sadly that was before my time, or I'd be a proud owner of forumware. *Sad sigh*

However, keep in mind that prior to the Chapterhouse decision, GW argued that they owned not just specific models, but the look and feel of related models that might be used to play their games. They asserted claims and issued threats pretty aggressively, including in cases where they were unlikely to win. The most charitable way to put it was that their legal team was vigorously advocating on their client's behalf. Most defendants didn't have the money or connections to defend themselves; they go bankrupt on legal fees even mounting a successful case. Had Winston and Strawn not jumped in to represent Chapterhouse pro bono, they'd be one more independent shut down by Ghastly Werdna.

That decision set a powerful precedent that puts limits on what GW can assert as their IP, and gives guidance on what they can and can't do. We didn't have that three years ago.

Yes, I know we didn't have the chapterhouse precedent yet, and this is more in hindsight than anything else. I was myself afraid of the risk posed by GW legal aggressivity as well at the time, but it feels so obviously unwinnable now, like George Lucas suing someone because his spaceship design "feels like it could belong to the Star wars universe".

When it concerned GW, we were all terrified by the legal menace. It just seems so surreal now.

For those looking for say Scorchers type thingies, check out this link from TMGs. Scroll down ... There is some nice stuff here - http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/6mm-s ... ies-wave-2

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."