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Hex Epic 40,000

 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 10:20 pm 
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Andy glad to see you have looked into the command radius and as you say overall the three hex area is closer to the original area covered by the games 30cm radius.

With big formations you need a larger area to spread your troops about in so three hexes will be ideal for this.

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 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:23 pm 
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Attached is a diagram of hex ranges (the numbers in hexes) compared to cm ranges. The blue circles are 15 cm, 30 cm, 45 cm, 60 cm, 75 cm, and 90 cm.

It seems to me that with 10 cm / 4 inch hexes the closest approximations are 1, 3, 4, 6, 7 or 8 (tough call) and 9 or 10 (also close).

I wanted the ranges to go up regularly, so have been using 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12. I rationalized it with my impression of how short the ranges seemed to be when firing. I know I was used to that when I played Epic 40K in the old days, but 45 cm seems so short for a tank!

An alternative is to use 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11. Those are regularly spaced, but still pretty close. 45 cm does go up to 50cm. This would also keep units with a range of 15cm only able to fire from within firefight range,as Epic 40K does. Is that better? To be honest, I _liked_ the longer ranges. But is Epic 40K still balanced with them?

Note that actual ranges of how far away a target can be are affected by the firer's distance from the side nearest to the target's hex. So a unit with range of 3 hexes could hit targets between 30cm and 40cm, depending on its own position. That can be less when not measuring along a hex row.

EDIT: This file was labeled incorrectly. See replacement 2 posts down, plus an alternative.

andy


Last edited by andyskinner on Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:23 pm 
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Quote:
andyskinner

Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:15 pm



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I'm not sure I'm following. Are you thinking of the regular barrage vs the heavy barrage?

andy



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Sorry, yes (I still think in 40k terms)

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 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:45 pm 
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BigJ, thanks for clarification of your barrage suggestion. I'm trying to only make changes that the hexes require. That probably means I need to go back and move some ideas to an appendix. :)

Attached are two diagrams about ranges. One replaces the one I had before, which was labeled incorrectly. The other is new.

The first (ranges.pdf), as before, shows circles at ranges from center of the firing hex. This one suggests to me that 1,3,5,7,9,11 are reasonable ranges if I want to keep the range increase regular.

The second (ranges5.pdf) adds 5cm to these ranges. That's because Epic 40K includes all the firers in range of any target, and all the targets within range of any firer. Adding 5cm is close to showing range from any firing units at the edge of the hex nearest to the target. This may give extra range to a unit at the back of a hex, but that's just part of the hex abstraction, and I'm OK with that. This one says to me that my 2,4,6,8,10,12 isn't so bad, either.

andy


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 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:50 pm 
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As noted in an edit of the original post, I have updated my Hex Epic 40,000 rules.

They now live here:
https://sites.google.com/site/skinneran ... pic-40-000

I would be delighted to know if someone tries them, and would be happy for feedback. But since these were designed for my personal preference, I'll use the same principle to decide what changes to make. I do have some notes at the end about what I am still waffling about.

andy


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 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:04 pm 
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Thanks Andy downloaded i'll have a butchers soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:27 am 
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I've already thought of things I need to tweak. As mentioned in the thread about flyers and snap-fire, I only recently realized that all units can snap-fire at flyers. No wonder they let flyers pull straight up after making their attack! I'll have to think about this. I currently make the flyer finish moving, though I do allow a turn along the way. I am trying to preserve approximate strength of flyers, fit them to hexes, and have miniatures play just a bit more role than the heavily abstracted rules from E40K. I like abstraction, which is why I like E40K. But I also like playing with toys, and the standard rules just don't give me much to do with the flyer models.

I'm also wondering about varying the WE movement rules. I picked what is in there now to be sorta like the standard rules, but they are not an exact match. I've attached document showing the effect of this and a few variations.

andy


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 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:59 pm 
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A word about feedback. My impression that a lot of people have been interested enough to download what I've done. I've had people express interest. But not much feedback lately. (I did get some input on a previous round.)

Obviously nobody owes me any. But examples of feedback I'd be interested in:

* Not for me because I don't play Epic 40,000.
* Not for me because I'm happy with measuring.
* I'm interested, but I was hoping you'd have rewritten the rules with your changes inline, all nicely laid out.
* I'm interested, but I don't like changes X, Y, and Z.
* I'd like to give this a try, but don't play much.
* I'd like to give this a try, but don't have hexed terrain.
* We've been playing these rules for a long time, and are really glad you've finally made an update. Here are some suggestions from how we've worked out these issues.
* Your feedback here!

As far as I know, my wife and I are the only ones who have played any games of this. I don't have hexed terrain myself, but do have a mat with hexes (and am going to make another one that mostly covers my ping-pong table). I use washers to mark hex centers on top of terrain that covers the mat. And of course there are 4" grid terrain systems.

andy


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 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:30 pm 
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Andy I'd love to have a go of the hex adaption and i'm certainly interested but i've zero time to play at the moment the day job and vanguard take up most of my time and i'm lucky if I can get a paint brush of something for a hour so i'm afraid i'm little use to you hear for feedback.

Never the less i'm following the thread with interest and will comment when able or if i've anything relevant to add. One thing I would say is don't over engineer it you are trying to speed things up so don't start going all battletech on use. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:49 pm 
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No, I think it is overall faster. If you're thinking of the movement rules I mentioned, it is replacing measured moves and 45 degree angle turns with hex moves and turns. Just want to find the approach that gives the best results with simplest things to think about.

Flyers got a bit more complicated, but I don't know how to fix that without too much abstraction.

The barrage rule did get a bit worse at one point, but I've backed off of that.

andy


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 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:18 am 
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This looks like it will be a very interesting variant. I hope you will keep working on it. I haven't had time to try it yet but I am very interested. I would like to contribute one small suggestion: Drawing that many large hexes can be a pain; if you just want to try the rules out, staggered squares (or rectangles) are topologically equivalent and are much easier to draw.

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 Post subject: Re: Hex Epic 40,000
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:53 pm 
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I'm currently working on a side project. I've got a mat that will almost cover my ping-pong table. With a cut-off, it does cover the whole table. It is a little too green, so I'd like to change its appearance a bit, then mark hexes on it. The mat is one of these: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=426540

I've been marking 4" hexes overlaid on my Geo-Hex pieces (which are based on 12" hexes). It is subtle enough that they shouldn't be too awful when I'm not playing this. But you are right that set-up can be long for those that don't start with Kallistra or GHQ Terrain Maker or one of the mats that can be printed with 4" hexes. I had the impression that offset rectangles made it a bit harder to trace fire-arc lines. Titans face either hex edges or corners, and it isn't as clear to me about facing for rectangles.

I made a template for drawing hexes.
1) Pick a size for template that you can print. I did mine at staples, using their engineering print service:
http://www.staples.com/sbd/content/copy ... rints.html
2) Go here https://incompetech.com/graphpaper/hexagonal/ to make hex paper with 4" (or 10cm) hexes. Their hex size means a side length, so you have to divide your desired size by 1.7321 So I might specify 2.3094 inches to get 4 inch hexes. Specify the paper size at the top. Unfortunately, I haven't seen it actually drawing the dot in the middle. I wish it would.
3) Print the PDF at Staples (or wherever). Hope it came out right. :)
4) Get a cheap poster board frame. Lay your print out under the plastic and mark the corners and/or centers. (This is what would have been easier if they'd mark the center.)
5) Drill out the dots. I found this harder than I expected. The plastic can break a more ragged hole than desired. You might do once with small drill and work your way up. I wondered about melting the holes instead.
6) Sure that was some work, but now you've got a template you can use for a long time.

I want to cover the ping-pong table because I want to play large games without it being too crowded.

After that, I'll play another game. What I really need to encourage this are some more battle reports.

I expect to simplify the flyer rules and go back to the abstraction in Epic 40K. I'd hoped to give more interest to the flyer models, but I made too many changes. I still need to account for hexes.

andy


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